The Napoleon Bonaparte Podcast #33 – The Battle of Waterloo Part 1
Posted on 06. Dec, 2007 by Cameron in Podcast
On this episode we discuss the first two major battles of the 1815 Waterloo campaign – Quatre Bras (16 June) and Ligny (16 June). The Battle of Quatre Bras was fought near the strategic crossroads of Quatre Bras, Belgium, on 16 June 1815 between Wellington’s Anglo-Dutch army and the left wing of the Armée du Nord under Marshal Michel Ney. The Battle of Ligny was fought on 16 June 1815 when French troops of the Armée du Nord (Army of the North) under the command of Napoleon Bonaparte, defeated a Prussian army under the command of Field Marshal Blücher. Ligny was Napoleon’s last victory. Blücher’s defeated army survived to play a pivotal part two days later at the Battle of Waterloo.
Battle map of the Waterloo campaign:
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The theme music is La Marseillaise. Yes, we know it isn’t necessarily relevant to Napoleon but it’s hard to beat when it comes to French themes!
Shaun, yes, Napoleon’s bad decision made him a poor leader in this circumstance. I think a great deal of the blame for his defeat at Waterloo rests on his shoulders. You can complain all you like, but the fact remains that the greatest military leader of the century back and marching towards Wellington’s troops, he knew that, and yet he attended parties and cricket matches instead of where the action was. I’m yet to hear a decent excuse for that.
My comments about the Prussians were in response to the repeated claims that “Wellington beat Napoleon at Waterloo” and the British hyperbole that goes along with it. The facts are that until the Prussians arrived on the scene, it is debatable who was in the stronger position.
Gents
I have been following the podcasts since the start and thank David and Cameron for their work. I cant say that I agree with all that they say, but it provokes debate and interest in the period and that can only be a good thing.
Where do I start here?
Wellington was outplayed at the start of the campaign, that is clear enough, as was Blucher. But it has to be noted that the two of them did show mental strength to play the parts they did – W to hold his ground at Waterloo and trust in B to respond, and then B driving Bulow’s and Ziethen’s corps to assist, despite the misgivings of some of B’s staff.
We shouldnt forget (despite David’s use of the name ‘British’ to describe W’s army) that W had a very mixed bunch – a third British, a third German and a third Dutch/Belgian. Despite the recent trend to talk-up the quality of the non-British component, W probably had good reasons to doubt much of its quality and even loyalty (apart from the KGL components). By comparision, N’s army was entirely French. Do you not think that W would acted differently if he had his Peninsular army? He was forced to appoint the Duke of Orange to a corps command for political reasons, even though he was not capable. So as N had to make allowances for things back in Paris, W had to accomodate his allies.
IMHO, Napoleon is the giant of the period and the greatest general of the time, but W is a long way clear of third. Maybe its easy to portay the events in the Peninsular as a sideshow, but when you look at W’s planning and preparation of the Lines of Torres Vedras ( as an example) its pretty clear to me that W had a far greater grasp of strategy and the overall objectives that he faced than anyone bar N.
By the time of Waterloo, W was also far better able to influence the actual battle. Whilst we can critcise W on the opening days of the campaign, his actual role at Waterloo was extremely active compared to N who witnesses state generally sat in a chair at the rear.
Perhaps Cameron, you might have a closer look at W’s career rather than just seeing him a fly in your Napoleons ointment?
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves discussing the battle before the podcast. Both sides made mistakes in the delployments ahead of the battle. My argument would be that Wellingtpn made fewer and less serious errors, and that furthermore the whole strategy that Napoleon was following was deeply flawed.
Can’t wait for the big one Cameron.
Do you have any plans for arranging on-line counselling for the fans of the podcast? When it finishes a lot of us are going to have to return to empty and unfulfilling lives without the next Napoleon podcast to look forward to.
Oh and thanks to Sally for bringing a fresh perspective to the debate. I think that Byron would not be an impartial observer. As a radical thinker Byron would not have been on the same wavelength as the conservative Wellington who later became a Tory prime minister. He also had the misfortune to survive the fighting and so didn’t have Nelson’s huge advantage of having a heroic death. These are great for PR.
It is also worth remembering that the Whigs wrote British History so Wellington has not had as good a write up as he might have done. When David descirbes Nelson as one of Britain’s heroes he is spot on. But the Duke of Wellington has never really shared Nelson’s popularity.
Colin,
Byron was definitely not impartial when it came to Wellington. He made no secret of his idolization of Napoleon and continued to publish odes to his hero after Waterloo which the British press naturally had to qualify but still published. Part of his animosity probably stemmed from jealousy, though, not mere anti-Tory sentiment. Fiona MacCarthy, in her biography of Byron, suggests that Wellington’s huge post Waterloo hero-of-the-moment popularity with the ladies irritated Byron whose preference for young boys apparently didn’t exempt him from craving the attention and adoration of women. BTW I highly recommend FM’s book if one doesn’t like poetry, as it dwells largely on the influence of Napoleon on Byron, paying scant attention to his actual verse and focusing instead on his travels and the time period. But it’s kind of fun putting a modern spin on some of his zingers about Waterloo from Childe Harold, including his, “On with the dance!â€
I also agree somewhat on the probability that time would have diminished Nelson’s stature in the public eye, although he seems to have learned early on that he wasn’t cut out for politics whereas Wellington seemed to relish the role no matter how badly it played out. His ultra-Tory politics aside, Apsley House is a great visit.
Hi,
Any comments/reasons why Napoleon did not take direct control of his forces at the battle of Waterloo.
From the podcast he appears to have allowed Ney to take operational control of the French forces unlike say his earlier campaigns in 1805, 1806 where he retained more or less direct control of his forces in battle. I can’t imagine Napoleon undertaking the cavalry charges led by Ney without having infantry support. How did he allow this to happen?